Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124
03/02/2023 10:15 AM House ENERGY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB74 | |
| Presentation: Green Hydrogen and Alaskan Geothermal | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 74 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ENERGY
March 2, 2023
10:15 a.m.
DRAFT
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative George Rauscher, Chair
Representative Tom McKay
Representative Stanley Wright
Representative Mike Prax
Representative Calvin Schrage
Representative Ashley Carrick
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Josiah Patkotak
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 74
"An Act relating to geothermal resources; relating to the
definition of 'geothermal resources'; and providing for an
effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
PRESENTATION: GREEN HYDROGEN AND ALASKAN GEOTHERMAL
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 74
SHORT TITLE: GEOTHERMAL RESOURCES
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/15/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/15/23 (H) ENE, RES
02/23/23 (H) ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124
02/23/23 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
02/28/23 (H) ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124
02/28/23 (H) Heard & Held
02/28/23 (H) MINUTE(ENE)
03/02/23 (H) ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
PAUL CRAIG, President
GeoAlaska, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony during the hearing
on HB 74.
GUY OLIVER, PhD, Geoscience and Exploration Leader
Ignis Energy
Houston, Texas
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony during the hearing
on HB 74.
GEOFF SIMPSON, Landman
Cyrq Energy
Boulder, Colorado
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony during the hearing
on HB 74.
PAUL FUHS, CEO, Alaska Hydrogen Industries
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 74; gave the
"Green Hydrogen and Alaskan Geothermal" presentation.
ACTION NARRATIVE
10:15:21 AM
CHAIR GEORGE RAUSCHER called the House Special Committee on
Energy meeting to order at 10:15 a.m. Representatives Carrick,
Prax, McKay, and Rauscher were present at the call to order.
Representatives Wright and Schrage arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
HB 74-GEOTHERMAL RESOURCES
10:16:35 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 74, "An Act relating to geothermal resources;
relating to the definition of 'geothermal resources'; and
providing for an effective date."
10:17:33 AM
PAUL CRAIG, President, GeoAlaska, LLC, stated that GeoAlaska has
two Geothermal exploration permits, on Mt. Spurr and Augustine
Island. He said that GeoAlaska and Ignis Energy have worked out
an agreement to partner together in efforts to develop
geothermal energy at those sites. GeoAlaska fully supports HB
74 and views it as a necessary step in the development of
geothermal resources, as the current length of time for permits
under current statute is too short to discover the feasibility
of a geothermal plant in a given area. He said that the current
instability of royalty structures also makes it more difficult
to secure investors. He stated that the oldest geothermal
project in the world was created in 1904 in Tuscany, Italy, and
it is still producing geothermal energy today.
10:26:40 AM
GUY OLIVER, PhD, Geoscience and Exploration Leader, Ignis
Energy, stated that Ignis Energy supports HB 74 as written.
Ignis Energy is a worldwide leader in connecting different
sources of energy with geothermal sources of energy in order to
meet energy demand. He said that Ignis has been doing work in
the state of Alaska for over 20 years. Its aim in Alaska is to
greatly increase the development of Alaska's "underutilized"
geothermal resource potential. He said that the extra time to
explore provided in HB 74 is a vital step in increasing
geothermal power, especially because of Alaska's weather
patterns limiting the amount of work that can be done during
certain parts of the year.
10:33:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked when the projects at Mt. Spurr and
Augustine Island could be expected to start producing energy.
DR. OLIVER answered that if according to plan, geophysical data
is expected this year, a test well is expected by summer 2024,
and the total time it is expected to take to start producing
energy is 5 or 6 years from now.
10:36:14 AM
GEOFF SIMPSON, Landman, Cyrq Energy, stated that Cyrg Energy is
a subsidiary of Macquarie Infrastructure and Real Assets, the
largest infrastructure company in the world. Cyrg has 10
ongoing geothermal projects around the world, including Alaska,
and fully supports HB 74.
10:38:37 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER opened public testimony on HB 74.
10:39:09 AM
PAUL FUHS, CEO, Alaska Hydrogen Industries, testified in support
of HB 74. He stated that geothermal energy is sustainable long-
term, and the provisions in the bill changing the royalty
structure would create stability for geothermal energy.
10:40:32 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER closed public testimony on HB 74 after
ascertaining nobody else wished to testify.
[HB 74 was held over.]
10:40:45 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 10:40 a.m. to 10:42 a.m.
^PRESENTATION: GREEN HYDROGEN AND ALASKAN GEOTHERMAL
PRESENTATION: GREEN HYDROGEN AND ALASKAN GEOTHERMAL
10:42:10 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER announced that the final order of business would
be a presentation titled: "Green Hydrogen and Alaskan
Geothermal."
10:42:31 AM
PAUL FUHS, CEO, Alaska Hydrogen Industries, gave a PowerPoint
presentation titled, "Alaska Geothermal, Green Hydrogen, and
Associated Industrial Processes and Products" [hard copy
included in the committee packet] during the Green Hydrogen and
Alaskan Geothermal presentation. He stated that he oversaw the
building of a geothermal well during his time as mayor of Dutch
Harbor, Alaska. He drew attention to the slide and stated that
earth's core is the same temperature as the sun, and that heat
radiates through the mantle and allows for the ability to
produce geothermal energy.
10:44:20 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slides 3 and 4 and gave an overview of
possible geothermal sites in the Aleutian Islands and Alaska's
strategic marine shipping position. He provided a map with the
locations and showing the heat flow. He stated that that
position allows for materials and goods to flow easily through
the islands, increasing geothermal opportunities.
MR. FUHS continued to slides 5 and 6 and stated that the
geothermal production system is binary. Heat is exchanged to
produce steam and spin the turbines, which creates electricity,
and the water is then reinjected into the ground to be heated
again. He showed the Mammoth Geothermal Plant in California,
which has an energy output similar to that of Bradley Lake
Hydroelectric in Alaska.
10:47:03 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slides 7 and 8 and showed images of a
magnetoelluric geothermal imaging graph and a hydrolyzer plant
in Denmark. He stated that the most expensive part of
geothermal production is the exploration for a good location.
The green areas on the image are the less resistant areas, which
allow the necessary process of water going back into the ground.
He stated that a hydrolyzer plant separates the water from the
hydrogen in the process of restoring the water into the plant
production area.
10:49:20
MR. FUHS continued to slides 9 and 10 showing the False Pass
Geothermal and Tidal Site and the Makushin Geothermal Plant in
Dutch Harbor. He stated that the hydrogen producing parts of
the plant could be adjusted to fill whatever current energy ends
there are in False Pass. The Makushin Geothermal Plant is able
to produce energy at a cost as low as 4.5 cents per kilowatt-
hour, and the currents sales agreement with Dutch Harbor is 12
cents per kilowatt-hour. He stated that there have been some
challenges to the project involving changing regulations, and
the continuation of geothermal development relies on the state
providing stability where possible.
10:54:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked whether Alaska Hydrogen Industries is
working with the Alaska Energy Authority.
MR. FUHS answered that it is.
10:55:14 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slides 11 through 13 and showed more
images of geothermal plants and geothermal imaging. He stated
that Unimak Island includes an area of state land that has the
potential to house facilities for both geothermal and tidal
production, and Adak Island has great geothermal energy
potential. He added that Adak, Alaska, also has infrastructure
that would make getting started there easier. He showed an
additional sample of geothermal imaging representing the type of
area that would best support the production of geothermal energy
10:57:22 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slide 14 and gave a brief overview of
hydrogen programs provided by the U.S. Department of Energy
(DoE). He stated that due to population size, DoE had
previously rejected a grant in Alaska, but Alaska Hydrogen is
working on a proof of concept in an attempt to garner interest
for future projects.
MR. FUHS continued to slides 15 through 17 and gave an overview
of hydrogen electrolysis. He stated that separating the
hydrogen and oxygen anodes works to generate electricity. He
compared hydrogen electrolysis with burning natural gas, showing
the difference in carbon dioxide that is placed into the
atmosphere.
10:59:54 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY asked what the temperature would be in
Fahrenheit.
MR. FUHS answered that the temperatures cross over at some
point.
11:00:40 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slides 18 and 19 and stated that steel is
one of the greatest sources of carbon dioxide due to the high
amount of burning involved in the process. He said that Kobe
Steel has built a plant in South Carolina that has a tower that
exposes the iron to the hydrogen without burning it. He added
that steel is the most recycled material, and that this process
has the potential to increase the number of times it can be
recycled.
11:03:17 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slides 20 and 21 and gave a brief overview
of hydrogen based fuels. He stated that ammonia works well as a
fuel and can be stored at temperatures that other types of fuel
cannot. Methylcyclohexane is an artificial chemical created by
taking hydrogen from the air, so although carbon is being put
into the air, it was taken out to produce the fuel. He added
that it is already used to raise the octane level of gas station
fuel.
MR. FUHS continued to slides 22 through 25 and gave an overview
of fuel density and transportation. He stated that using less
dense fuels would allow ships to carry more cargo and make fewer
stops. He showed an experimental ship design that would allow
for the more efficient transport of liquid hydrogen.
11:07:32 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slides 26 and 27 and stated that there is
a market for hydrogen based products in Japan. Japan is seeking
to reduce their fossil fuel output and look for nuclear
alternatives. He stated that the State of Alaska could help by
implementing policies that would support the development of
renewable fuels, including providing financial support for the
upfront costs associated with geothermal energy production. He
added that the state should continue to provide support for
fossil fuel production and gave his opinion that people living
in Artic regions are being made to "pay" for fossil fuel usage
around the world. He said that Alaska would also need to
support the development of mineral resource development, as
those minerals are needed to build the equipment needed for
renewable energy production.
11:11:09 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER asked how the purification process for iron ore
works.
MR. FUHS answered that large magnets are used to pull the iron
out, and the iron would be sent to hydrogen based steel plants.
11:12:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY asked if there are any significant sources
of iron ore in the state of Alaska, or if it comes from other
places.
MR. FUHS answered that two of the biggest sources of iron ore
are Brazil and Canada. In response to a follow-up question, he
said that any coal of the quality necessary to produce steel is
on the North Slope.
11:15:45
CHAIR RAUSCHER announced that HB 74 was held over.
11:16:15 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Energy meeting was adjourned at [11:16]
a.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| House Energy Committee 3.2.2023 pdf-compressed.pdf |
HENE 3/2/2023 10:15:00 AM |
Alaska Green Hydrogen Geothermal |